CAMPBELL BROWN, MODERATOR
JON MEACHAM, MODERATOR
BROWN: Tonight, we’re going to spend about half of our time with Senator Clinton, about half of our time with Senator Obama. The order tonight was decided by coin toss. Senator Clinton won and has elected to go first. Questions will come from Jon and me and from some of the faith leaders assembled here in our audience, so let’s get started. Without further ado, please welcome the senator from New York, Hillary Clinton.
BROWN: Nice to see you. Welcome.
CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you very much.
BROWN: Senator Clinton, welcome to you.
CLINTON: Thank you.
BROWN: Jon has got the first question.
CLINTON: Great. Well, it’s wonderful to be here. I want to thank Messiah College for hosting this. Very good of you to do this.
MEACHAM: Senator, we’ll start with the news. You have been extremely critical of Senator Obama’s recent comments in San Francisco in which he argued that some hard-pressed Americans have — economically hard-pressed Americans have, and I quote, gotten bitter and cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or antitrade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Senator, you have written of how faith sustained you in bitter times. Many of us have been sustained by our faith in bitter times. What exactly is wrong with what Senator Obama had to say?
CLINTON: Well, I’m going to let Senator Obama speak for himself. But from my perspective, the characterization of people in a way that really seemed to be elitist and out of touch is something that we have to overcome.
You know, the Democratic Party, to be very blunt about it, has been viewed as a party that didn’t understand and respect the values and the way of life of so many of our fellow Americans.
And I think it’s important that we make clear that we believe people are people of faith because it is part of their whole being; it is what gives them meaning in life, through good times and bad times. It is there as a spur, an anchor, to center one in the storms, but also to guide one forward in the day-to-day living that is part of everyone’s journey.
And, you know, when we think about the legitimate concerns that people have about trade or immigration, those are problems to be solved. And that’s what I think we should be focused on.
But I am very confident that, as we move forward tonight and beyond, people will get a chance to get to know each of us a little better, and that’s really what I want to talk about. I will leave it to Senator Obama to speak for himself; he does an excellent job of that.
And I will speak for myself on what my faith journey is and what, you know, leads me to this chair here tonight.
BROWN: But, Senator, you’ve been out there on the stump attacking him pretty aggressively over this. And his response has been — and he said it pretty bluntly tonight — shame on you. You know that he is a man of faith. This is what he’s saying. And to suggest that he is demeaning religion is you playing politics.
CLINTON: Well, he will have to speak for himself and provide his own explanation. But I do think it raises a lot of concerns and we’ve seen that exhibited in the last several days by people here in Pennsylvania, in Indiana where I was yesterday, and elsewhere, because it did seem so much in-line with what often we are charged with.
Someone goes to a closed-door fundraiser in San Francisco and makes comments that do seem elitist, out of touch and, frankly, patronizing. That has nothing to do with him being a good man or a man of faith.
We had two very good men and men of faith run for president in 2000 and 2004. But large segments of the electorate concluded that they did not really understand or relate to or frankly respect their ways of life.
And I think that is an issue for voters, as I’ve heard today from people I visited in Scranton and elsewhere. So this is a legitimate political issue. And there are some issues that are not. But this one is.
And I do believe that Senator Obama will have a chance to explain himself tonight. And I’m sure he will take that opportunity.
BROWN: Let’s talk about your faith. And we warned people the questions tonight would be pretty personal. So I want to ask you. You said in an interview last year that you believe in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And you have actually felt the presence of the Holy Spirit on many occasions.
Share some of those occasions with us.
CLINTON: You know, I have, ever since I’ve been a little girl, felt the presence of God in my life. And it has been a gift of grace that has, for me, been incredibly sustaining. But, really, ever since I was a child, I have felt the enveloping support and love of God and I have had the experiences on many, many occasions where I felt like the Holy Spirit was there with me as I made a journey.
It didn’t have to be a hard time. You know, it could be taking a walk in the woods. It could be watching a sunset.
You know, I am someone who has talked a lot about my life. You know more about my life than you know about nearly anybody else’s, about 60 books worth…
CLINTON: … some of which are, you know, frankly, a little bit off-base. But I don’t think that I could have made my life’s journey without being anchored in God’s grace and without having that, you know, sense of forgiveness and unconditional love.
And I am not going to point to one or another matter. I mean, some of my struggles and challenges have been extremely public. And I have talked about how I have been both guided and supported through those, trying to find my own way through, because, for me, my faith has given me the confidence to make decisions that were right for me, whether anybody else agreed with me or not.
And it is just such a part of who I am and what I have lived through for so many years that trying to pull out and say, oh, I remember, I was sitting right there when I felt, you know, God’s love embrace me, would be, I think, trivializing what has been an extraordinary sense of support and possibility that I have had with me my entire life.
MEACHAM: Senator, you — right after New Hampshire, you and I had a conversation a couple of days after that in which you described your moment in the setting where you said that you worked very hard and it was seen as a turning point by many people. You described that as a moment of grace.
MEACHAM: So that is a specific in…
CLINTON: Right, right. Well, you know, Jon, it is — it is perhaps a reluctance on my part that is rooted in my personal reserve, rooted in the way I was raised, that I worry and I — you know, I understand you want to ask a lot of personal questions, and I appreciate that. But I also worry, as I suggested to you in that same interview, that you have to walk the walk of faith. And talking about it is important because it’s important to share that experience. But I also believe that, you know, faith is just — it’s grace. It’s love. It’s mystery. It’s provocation.
It is everything that makes life and its purpose meaningful as a human being.
CLINTON: And those moments of grace are ones that I cherish and, you know, in asked a specific question about how I felt when I shared my belief that politics is not a game, it is not a who’s up, who’s down.
I mean, it is a serious search and we are so fortunate because we have taken the gifts that God gave us and we have created this democracy where we choose our leaders and we have to be more mindful of how important and serious a business this is.
And, therefore, when I say politics is not a game, it is really coming from deep within me because I know that we have the opportunity to really give other people a chance to live up to their own God-given potential. And that, to me, is the kind of grace note that makes politics worthwhile. Because, believe me, there’s a lot about it that is not particularly welcoming or easy.
But every day as I travel around the country, I meet people whose faith just knocks me over. I mean, I was with a woman in Philadelphia Friday morning whose son was murdered on the streets in Philadelphia, whose grandson was murdered. And she and I just sat together and she told me about how strong her faith is and how it has sustained her and how she believes, you know, God is with her and she doesn’t understand why this happened to her son and her grandson.
But every day she’s grateful, and she is determined to be the person that she believes God meant her to be. And so when I sit there and I listen to that woman tell me about how it felt and how today she is still, you know, getting up every morning, has a smile on her face, looking to go to her daycare business and take care of all of these children who have been entrusted to her, that’s a moment of grace.
But it’s not about me. I mean, not every moment of grace is about you. More often it is about the interaction and the relationship. You know, grace is that relationship with God. But it’s also the relationships with our fellow human beings in which we know grace is present. And so I just feel very fortunate that, you know, I have been able to experience that and I wish it for everyone.
BROWN: Let’s bring a question in from one of the religious leaders joining us tonight. Dr. Joel Hunter, who is senior pastor of the 12,000-member Northland Church in Longwood, Florida. Dr. Hunter?
CLINTON: How are you, Dr. Hunter? Good to see you.
PASTOR JOEL HUNTER, NORTHLAND CHURCH: I’m fine, Senator. Good to see you. Senator, many of the issues we’re going to be talking about tonight, Darfur, AIDS, abortion, torture, could present you with choices that will have life and death consequences for countless people around the world. What are the first principles you fall back on to make such decisions? Are there certain activities or references or people with whom you consult in order to do what is morally right?
CLINTON: You know, Dr. Hunter, I think this is one of the challenges that face any of us who are in public life where literally you do have the authority to make these decisions that could very well be life and death decisions and they are daunting and I do not pretend to know how I will deal with every single one of them.
But I do have a sense of the process by which I will try to approach them. And it really is rooted in, you know, my prayer, my contemplation, my study. I think you have to immerse yourself in advice, information, criticism from others. I don’t pretend to even believe that I know the answers to a lot of these questions. I don’t.
But I do believe that you have to be willing to expose yourself to many different points of view and then you have to make that decision. I think that for a lot of us, decisions are ones that you don’t just make and put on a shelf. To be fair to be constantly struggling and challenging yourself, you have to keep opening up that decision and asking.
CLINTON: And very often, as you know, some decisions look like they’re 100-to-nothing until you actually examine them. And some decisions truly are right down the middle, and you’re not sure which side of the line you will decide upon.
You mentioned some of the very difficult decisions that we are going to face, and there are countless more. How do we get out of Iraq the right way? Everyone knows there is no easy, comfortable decision. I believe we’ve got to begin taking our troops out of Iraq based on my analysis of what I think is the best path forward for us and for the Iraqis. But I am deeply aware that there will be predictable and unpredictable consequences. And part of making a decision is having to live with the consequences.
And I have been very fortunate in my life to have people whom I feel very comfortable talking to openly, with total frankness, seeking their guidance. They don’t all agree with me; they don’t all share my view, when I start the conversation, perhaps.
But I don’t think you can surround yourself only with people with whom you think you will agree. And, for me, being amongst people who challenge me, who make me uncomfortable, to be very blunt, is an important part of my decision-making process.
I want to push back; I want to argue; I want to raise other hypotheticals and throw them back to see what the outcome is. But at the end of the day, since we are running to be the president of the United States, you have to be comfortable making a decision, because you cannot say, Well, let’s put it on the back burner and then get back to it some time when it’s clearer, for many of these decisions. And then you have to live with the consequences.
But I hope I will never, ever find myself being defensive or abrupt and dismissive of people who disagree with me. I regret that that often happens in politics, and maybe it’s because oftentimes the decision-making process is so exhausting.
You know, if you’re a person of faith, after you’ve prayed, if you’re a person willing to subject yourself to criticism, after you’ve done it, you’re just so relieved to make the decision you don’t want to revisit it. But I don’t think that a president can afford to do that.
MEACHAM: Senator, do you believe personally that life begins at conception?
CLINTON: I believe that the potential for life begins at conception. I am a Methodist, as you know. My church has struggled with this issue. In fact, you can look at the Methodist Book of Discipline and see the contradiction and the challenge of trying to sort that very profound question out.
But for me, it is also not only about a potential life; it is about the other lives involved. And, therefore, I have concluded, after great, you know, concern and searching my own mind and heart over many years, that our task should be in this pluralistic, diverse life of ours in this nation that individuals must be entrusted to make this profound decision, because the alternative would be such an intrusion of government authority that it would be very difficult to sustain in our kind of open society.
And as some of you’ve heard me discuss before, I think abortion should remain legal, but it needs to be safe and rare.
And I have spent many years now, as a private citizen, as first lady, and now as senator, trying to make it rare, trying to create the conditions where women had other choices.
I have supported adoption, foster care. I helped to create the campaign against teenage pregnancy, which fulfilled our original goal 10 years ago of reducing teenage pregnancies by about a third. And I think we have to do even more.
CLINTON: And I am committed to doing that. And I guess I would just add from my own personal experience, I have been in countries that have taken very different views about this profoundly challenging question.
Some of you know, I went to China in 1995 and spoke out against the Chinese government’s one-child policy, which led to forced abortions and forced sterilization because I believed that we needed to bear witness against what was an intrusive, abusive, dehumanizing effort to dictate how women and men would proceed with respect to the children they wished to have.
And then shortly after that, I was in Romania and there I met women who had been subjected to the communist regime of the 1970s and ’80s where they were essentially forced to bear as many children as possible for the good of the state. And where abortion was criminalized and women were literally forced to have physical exams and followed by the secret police and so many children were abandoned and left to the orphanages that, unfortunately, led to an AIDS epidemic.
So, you know, when I think about this issue, I think about the whole range of concerns and challenges associated with it and I will continue to do what I can to reduce the number and to improve and increase the care for women and particularly the adoption system and the other opportunities that women would have to make different choices.
BROWN: Senator, I want to go to the other end of the spectrum and the end of life and ask you, do you believe it is compassionate, that it is appropriate to let someone who is really suffering choose to end their life?
CLINTON: Again, this is one of those incredibly challenging issues. You know, the Terry Schiavo case in Florida posed that for many people. And it was one of those decisions to go back to Dr. Hunter’s point, where there were people of good faith and people of strong feelings on both sides about what should happen to that woman’s life.
And I don’t know that any of us is in a position to make that choice for families or for individuals, but I don’t want us also to condone government action that would legitimize or encourage end-of-life decisions. Somehow there has to be a framework for us to determine how can people who are either able to make these decisions on their own do so? Or if they are not, how best do we create a decision process for their families to try to decide?
And now we are being faced with a lot of these difficult decisions because of what the world we live in today with modern technology and so much else. And we’re going to have to come to grips with them one way or another.
BROWN: We’ve got to take a quick break, a commercial break. We’ll be back. Much more with Senator Clinton, right after this.
BROWN: Welcome back to the Compassion Forum, everyone. We’re here with Senator Hillary Clinton.
And Senator, there are a lot of Americans who are uncomfortable with the conversation that we’re having here tonight. That they believe religion already has way too much influence in political life and public life. How do you reassure them?
CLINTON: Well, I understand that concern because part of our obligation as leaders in America is to make sure that any conversation about religion is inclusive and respectful. And that has not always happened, as we know. And it is so personal. The spiritual journey that each of us takes or doesn’t take.
And I think it’s important that we recognize that for good cause, I mean, we have been such a vibrant nation when it comes to religious experience in large measure because we’ve always protected ourselves against, you know, religion going too far, being too intrusive. So it is a balance. And we want religion to be in the public square. If you are a person of faith, you have a right and even an obligation to speak from that wellspring of your faith. But to do so in a respectful and inclusive way.
So I understand why some people, even religious people, even people of faith might say, why are you having this forum? And why are you exploring these issues from two people who are vying to be president of the United States?
And I think that’s a fair question to ask. I am here because I think it’s also fair for us to have this conversation. But I’m very conscious of how thoughtful we must proceed.
BROWN: Another question from the audience. Rabbi Steve Gutow, who is director of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs is with us. Rabbi?
RABBI STEVE GUTOW, JEWISH COUNCIL FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Senator Clinton?
CLINTON: Yes, Rabbi.
GUTOW: Back to China. China has continued to persecute and subject to oppression the people of Tibet. It continues to be the largest supplier of weapons to Sudan and the largest purchaser of its oil. Let’s just say China is not doing all it can to stop the genocide in Darfur. You have said that America needs to return to being a moral voice of the world.
Is our participation in the Beijing Olympics harmful to that moral voice?
CLINTON: Well, Rabbi, I appreciate your asking this question because I think it’s a question of both political and moral significance. And that’s why last week I called on our president to decide he would not attend the opening ceremonies of the Olympics because that is a public and very obvious ratification of our government’s approval of the Beijing government’s actions.
CLINTON: Unless the Chinese began to take very visible steps to begin to end the suppression of the Tibetans and undermining their culture and religious beliefs, and if we could get more cooperation out of the Chinese government with respect to Sudan.
And, of course, I would welcome even more action on behalf of human rights. But the challenge is, how do we try to influence the Chinese government? And I believe we have missed many opportunities during the Bush administration to do so.
In fact, I think it’s fair to say our policy toward China is incoherent and that has not been in the best interest of our values or our strategic interest. So I would urge the president at least to consider and, therefore, publicly say that he will not be attending the opening ceremonies.
And let’s see whether the Chinese government begins to respond because that for them would be a great loss of face and perhaps we would get more cooperation. We would get the process going that the Dalai Lama has asked for over many years.
There could be a lot of ways that the Chinese government demonstrated it heard our concerns.
BROWN: A question from Reverend William Shaw. He is the president of the National Baptist Convention. Reverend Shaw?
CLINTON: He is. Hello, Reverend Shaw. Good to see you again.
REV. WILLIAM J. SHAW, NATIONAL BAPTIST CONVENTION: Senator. Current U.S. policies toward developing countries — trade policies, make it sometimes extremely difficult for poor people to access inexpensive generic drugs for the treatment of AIDS and other sicknesses.
How would you shape the policies of your administration to ensure that the poor would have access to and could secure the drugs that they need to improve the quality of their lives, of their families and even the future of their country?
CLINTON: Well, Reverend Shaw, I agree with your description of this problem, and I believe that our government must do so much more to get generic drugs and low-cost drugs to people suffering. Not only from HIV/AIDS, but the range of diseases that affect disproportionately the poor. It’s one of the reasons why I voted against the free trade agreement with Central America, because there was a provision that would give even more power to our pharmaceutical companies to prevent exactly doing what you are discussing.
I have been an outspoken advocate in urging that both our great pharmaceutical companies — which do a lot of good. Because, after all, they invent the compounds and put them together that the generics then are able to copy.
But we need to do much more to get our pharmaceutical companies to work with us to get the drug costs down and to open the pathway for generic drugs. And that’s going to take presidential leadership.
I commend President Bush for his PEPFAR initiative. It was a very bold and important commitment, but it didn’t go far enough in opening up the door to generics and getting the costs down.
And as president, I will do that.
MEACHAM: Senator, we’ve heard about HIV/AIDS. Many people here are concerned about Darfur and a number of other humanitarian issues. Why do you think it is that a loving God allows innocent people to suffer?
(LAUGHTER) MEACHAM: And we just have 30 seconds.
CLINTON: Yes. You know, that is the subject of generations of commentary and debate. And I don’t know. I can’t wait to ask him. Because I have…
CLINTON: I have just pondered it endless, endlessly.
CLINTON: But I do want to just add that what that means to me is that in the face of suffering, there is no doubt in my mind that God calls us to respond. You know, that’s part of what we are expected to do. For whatever reason it exists, its very existence is a call to action. Certainly in, you know, our…
CLINTON: You know, in my Judeo-Christian faith tradition, in both the Old and the New Testament, the incredible demands that God places on us and that the prophets ask of us, and that Christ called us to respond to on behalf of the poor are unavoidable.
CLINTON: And it’s always been curious to me how our debate about religion in America too often misses that. You know, His Holiness, the pope, is going to be coming to America next week, and he’s been a strong voice on behalf of what we must do to deal with poverty, and deal with injustice, and deal with what is truly our obligations toward those who are the least among us.
So maybe, you know, the Lord is just waiting for us to respond to his call, because this despair, this impoverishment of body and soul is what we are expected to be spending our time responding to, and so few of us do.
Even those who are doing wonderful work with organizations represented in this audience, we are just not doing enough. And it’s a personal call; it’s a family community, religious call; and it’s a governmental call. And we’ve got to do more to respond to that call.
BROWN: Quickly, just now you brought up the Bible. We were talking theology. Do you have a favorite Bible story?
CLINTON: Oh, I have so many of them. You know, I was fortunate as a child growing up to be read Bible stories, to go to Sunday school, to go to Bible school. And Bill and I read, you know, Bible stories to Chelsea.
And, you know, I have talked about Bible stories and parables a lot in my life with friends. And, you know, it depends upon what’s going on in my life at the time.
But clearly, for me, the recent Purim holiday for Jews raised the question of Esther. And I have been — ever since I was a little girl — a great admirer of Esther. And I used to ask that that be read to me over and over again, because there weren’t too many models of women who had the opportunity to make a decision, to take a chance, a risk that, you know, was very courageous.
And so that’s the one that’s most recently on my mind, because I have some rabbi friends who send me readings that go with the scripture of the week. And certainly, Esther is someone who I wish I knew even more about than what we know from the Bible.
BROWN: A question from Eboo Patel, who is a Muslim, is the founder and executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core.
QUESTION: As-Salamu Alaykum, Senator Clinton.
CLINTON: Thank you.
QUESTION: My name is Eboo Patel. I’m an American Muslim, and I lead an organization called the Interfaith Youth Core. And it’s my privilege to watch a range of faith communities come together around the common value of compassion.
Americans of all faiths and no faith at all genuinely believe in compassion and want to apply that in addressing global poverty and climate change. Can we do that without changing our standard of living?
CLINTON: Well, I believe there is so much we can do that we’re not doing that would not change our standard of living as an imposition from the outside, but which would inspire us to take action that would impact how we live.
And I don’t think we would notice it demonstrably undermining our standard of living, but it would give us the opportunity to set an example and to be a model.
When I think about the simple steps any one of us can take — you know, turning off lights when one leaves a room, unplugging appliances, changing to compact florescent bulbs — you know, my husband and I have done that — I don’t think it’s impacted our standard of living, but we feel like we’re making a small contribution to limiting the amount of greenhouse gas emissions, you know, being more mindful of our purchases.
I hope that, as president, I can model that and lead that effort so that people don’t feel so threatened by the changes we’re talking about when it comes to dealing with global warming.
In preparation for the pope’s visit, I was reading that the Vatican is the first carbon-neutral state in the world now. Well, that shows leadership. And I don’t think it has impacted the work or the living. You know, Ambassador Flynn, who was our ambassador to the Vatican, might know. But it was a great statement.
And we can do more.
CLINTON: And I think that, with leadership, people will find ways to take those first steps. And then we can take even more. Now there’s so much that I have to do as president with the cap in trade system, with moving away from our dependence on foreign oil, but I’m going to look for ways that will cushion the costs on middle class and working and poor people. Because I don’t believe that they should have to bear more than what they are bearing right now as we make this transition. And I believe we can accomplish that.
BROWN: Let’s go to Lisa Sharon Harper. She is the executive director of New York Faith and Justice. Welcome to you.
LISA SHARON HARPER, N.Y. FAITH AND JUSTICE: Thank you. Senator Clinton, underdeveloped nations and regions that lack widespread access to education and basic resources like water, and they tend to be some of the most unstable and dangerous regions of the world. Places like Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan. Our national security is at stake, but our military is stretched. As president, would you consider committing U.S. troops to a purely humanitarian mission under the leadership of a foreign flag?
CLINTON: Well, let me start by saying, No. 1, I believe strongly that we have to get back to leading on issues like health care and education and women’s rights around the world. I have introduced legislation called The Education for All Act. And it’s bipartisan. I introduced it first in ’04 and then we reintroduced it on a bipartisan basis in ’07. And the work that I would want to do to have the United States lead the world in putting the 77 million kids who aren’t in school into school, having us lead when it comes to health care, particularly in malaria, TB, HIV/AIDS, but also women’s health which has been woefully neglected.
I believe we should demonstrate our commitment to people who are poor, disenfranchised, disempowered before we talk about putting troops anywhere. The United States has to be seen again as a peacekeeper, and we have lost that standing in these last seven years.
Therefore, I want us to have a partnership, government to government, government with the private sector, government with our NGOS and our faith community to show the best of what America has to offer. You know, I really appreciated President Bush after the tsunami struck, asking his father and my husband to represent the United States and our concern for the people who have been devastated.
And, yes, the military was there delivering supplies. That sent a loud message and it was resonating throughout South Asia — in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world. America’s favorability rose dramatically because we were seen as caring and compassionate toward those with whom we had very little contact or, in fact, some, you know, level of distrust previously.
So I think we have to concentrate first and foremost on restoring our moral authority in the world and our standing in the world. And there are lots of ways that the United States military can be helpful and can show the better face of America. After the Pakistan earthquakes, we sent in military teams to help people. So I think that is my emphasis right now.
Before we get to what we might do hypothetically, let’s see what we will do realistically to rebuild America’s moral authority and demonstrate our commitment to compassionate humanitarianism.
MEACHAM: Senator, this is our last question for you. To return to faith, do you believe God wants you to be president?
CLINTON: Well, I could be glib and say we’ll find out, but I — I don’t presume anything about God. I believe, you know, Abraham Lincoln was right in admonishing us not to act as though we knew God was on our side. In fact, our mission should be on God’s side. And I have tried to take my beliefs, my faith and put it to work my entire life. And it has been gratifying to do the little I’ve done to try to help other people, which is really what motivates me.
CLINTON: That’s why I get up in the morning and see whether there’s an individual I can help or a problem I can solve.
And I wouldn’t presume to even imagine that God is going to tell me what I should do. I think that he has given me enough guidance, you know, through how I have been raised and how I have been, thankfully, given access to the Bible over so many years, commentary and the like.
So I just get up and try to do the best I can. And I think that I see through a glass darkly. I don’t believe that any of us know it all and can with any confidence say that we are going to, you know, be doing God’s will unless, you know, we are just out there doing our very best, hoping that we make a difference in people’s lives.
And that’s what I am trying to do in this campaign. That’s what I would try to do as president.
And I couldn’t be sitting here had it not been for the, you know, gift of grace and faith that keeps me going and, frankly, challenges me. You know, we haven’t talked much about the challenge that faith gives us individually.
I really worry when people become very complacent in their faith, when they do believe they have all the answers, because I just don’t think it’s humanly possible for any of us to know God’s mind. I think we are just searching.
We are on this journey together, and we need to approach it with a great deal of humility. And that’s what I’m trying to do in this campaign, and we’ll see what turns out. But whatever happens, I will get up the next day and try to continue on my journey to do what I can to try to fulfill what I believe to be God’s expectations of us.
BROWN: Senator Clinton, it was a very different kind of evening. You’ve been a good sport. Thank you.
CLINTON: Thank you.